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Jay Ruderman: Curb Your Enthusiasm is one of the great comedies on television right now. The shows stars, Larry David as himself, and has an accompanying cast that is excellent.

Narrator: All Inclusive, a podcast on inclusion, innovation and social justice, with Jay Ruderman.

Jay: Hi, I’m Jay Ruderman and this is All Inclusive. One of those excellent co-stars on Curb Your Enthusiasm is Emmy nominated actress, Cheryl Hines, who joined us today. Cheryl, thanks so much for joining us today and I hope you and your family are doing well at this time. We’re really proud to have you as our guest. We are living in the time of the surge of COVID-19. I’m here in Massachusetts and we really are in the surge. I just wanted to understand how you and your family are dealing with this time of social isolation and quarantine and how are things at home.

Cheryl Hines: Hi, it’s good to be here. How are things at home. Things at home are pretty good. So far, I don’t want to jinx it, but everybody’s hanging in there and they’re pretty, dare I say respectful of each other at our house. We have a lot of people here, we have probably seven, maybe. I have a lot of kids, so we’re all hunkered down together. So far so good. I’ve done a lot of online games with my friends and I think that’s what’s keeping me sane. A lot of Zoom calls.

Jay: I’m also living in a house with seven adults and three dogs and thank God we have the space. I have teenagers, so it’s a whole different phase. Sometimes they’re really happy and sometimes they’re not so happy. Let me ask you, in terms of your industry, as an actress in the entertainment industry, has everything just been frozen right now in terms of filming? I noticed that a lot of shows that are live shows are now being done remotely, but are there time to read scripts? How do you take best use of this time that you have?

Cheryl: Well, yes, it’s a good time to read scripts and it does seem like everything is frozen. It’s starting to feel like things are lifting a little bit, that there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel. I know a lot of executives as well as the union, like SAG and AFTRA, they’re all trying to figure out how to move forward because we can’t just say stuck in time. So people are trying to come up with good plans of how we can get back to work. And I think it’s going to look different when we do go back to work. I don’t imagine there will be shows with big audiences for a while. So I think people are trying to sort of reinvent TV and film, I think for the next chapter.

Jay: It seems like the entertainment industry is a lot about being out and about and connecting and having the right meetings and socializing. And now that that is not going on so much, how do you keep those connections going?

Cheryl: You know it’s interesting, one of my friends is a producer and we were playing poker online and she was saying that they had a table read for a film that she’s trying to put together and they didn’t know what to expect because they thought it might just be a dud, like fizzle out, not the right vibe. But she said it was one of the best table reads she’s ever been to, because it was on Zoom. And usually when we do a table read, the actors sit at a long table and then producers, writers, network executives, or studio executives, they’re all sitting around watching. But she said on Zoom, the way it’s set up that people can hide their video, so they can mute themselves and hide themselves. So you can watch and hear everything that’s going on, but people can’t see you.

Cheryl: So the only people that were seeing were the actors that were doing the table read and she said it was amazing. She felt like she was watching the film because we’re doing it, you’re sitting there and you see closeups of everybody’s faces. And she said it was just sort of a magical experience. And she said it might change the way people do table reads because also you didn’t have to fly in actors from around the country or around the world, everybody could be there. And it was just a very sort of intimate way of doing it. So things are changing, sometimes for the best.

Jay: You and I met right before this pandemic really broke out. We did an event honoring Peter and Bobby Farrelly in Beverly Hills for their work for inclusion of people with disabilities in their films. And it was great event and I got to meet you and Ted Danson and Larry David. And it was probably one of the last events that was held before everything sort of closed down. You’ve had a tremendous amount of success in your career with Curb Your Enthusiasm and obviously you’ve been very connected to the show and to Larry David, but you’ve done many other things in your career. Have you moved away from being an integral part of that show and connected to Larry to really developing a very substantial career on your own?

Cheryl: It’s a good question because when Curb Your Enthusiasm first came out, because of the style of the show, it’s all improvised and it was supposed to look like a documentary. So it was sort of a mockumentary if you will, because Larry David is playing a version of himself and you had, and still do have Richard Lewis playing a version of himself and Ted Danson too. You have all these people that you know. And when I was cast, one of the reasons I got the job was because I was an unknown actress. So they wanted somebody everybody didn’t know so people would think, “Oh, maybe that’s actually Larry David’s wife.” Because everybody else is a real person.

Cheryl: So when Curb came out, people thought I was really married to Larry. So, I went to an audition and the casting director said, “Oh, you’re an actress too?” “Uh, what do you mean?” So she thought it was a reality show. I hired a publicist then to sort of separate myself from the show so people would know I’m not really Larry David’s wife and I’m an actress and it was helpful. So after that, I started getting auditions and offers as an actress instead of as Larry David’s wife.

Jay: So you were born in Miami and grew up in Tallahassee, when you first started getting into acting, tell us how that happened. How did you get the bug and how did you begin your acting career?

Cheryl: Well, it’s interesting because I can only remember wanting to be an actor. When I was little, I would write sketches with my sister and my brothers and then we’d have a show in the living room for my parents. They weren’t great shows, let’s be honest, but I mean, looking back I realize, “Oh, that’s not normal.” I mean, not every kid is writing comedy sketches when they’re eight. So that was just sort of my life growing up. And then when I was in high school, I really started taking acting seriously. And because I did grow up in Tallahassee, I got to work with some of the actors at Florida State University. So that was exciting for me and I think it really got me thinking in a more serious way about acting in a more focused way of, “Oh, I need to be disciplined about this. And I have to really approach it in a more mature way.”

Cheryl: So from there, I studied it in college and then at some point I just drove my Toyota Tercel from Orlando to Los Angeles. And then from there I found out about the Groundlings Theater in LA, which is all improv and sketch comedy. And I went there and I really found my home and my people, and I learned so much there. From there, I got Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is all improvised.

Jay: So there are thousands and thousands of actors, people from all over the country that descend on LA and try to make it. And most of them don’t make it. What do you attribute your success to? My dad used to say, first of all, 90% of life is showing up, but 25% is hard work and 75% is luck. What’s your theory on how it happened for you?

Cheryl: Well, I like the idea of preparedness meeting opportunity. So for me, I feel like I had spent years and years and years studying and learning. I wrote a play when I was in my twenties and I produced that and I kept writing when of course nobody’s asking me to write anything. I kept auditioning for student films. Every day I was working really hard even though nobody at all cared. But it helped me to prepare for the moment when somebody did care, when somebody did call me in for an audition, I was ready. Because I’d spent my whole life waiting for that moment in time where I could go in and actually try in front of somebody who was a decision maker or had the power to hire me for something.

Jay: In some ways you have to be a very strong person to deal with a lot of rejection and maybe a couple of acceptances. Mental health, anxiety, depression is so prevalent in our society and I think very prevalent in the entertainment industry. How do you deal with that? How do you push yourself forward when there’s rejection all the time?

Cheryl: When I was in Orlando, before I moved to LA, there was only one show that was being shot there and it was Swamp Thing, the TV show. I was dying to be on it because that was the one show. I auditioned once and I didn’t get the part. I auditioned the second time and I did not get a part. And they called me in the third time for Swamp Thing. And I’m really working on these auditions, I’m prepared, I’ve studied, I’ve done all the things that I’m supposed to do. I go in and I didn’t get the part and I really got depressed. And I talked to my sister, and I said, “Maybe I shouldn’t be in this business. Maybe I’m not good at it. And I don’t know, maybe I should just quit.” And she said, “Yeah, you should.” I said. “What?” She said, “Well, if this rejection from Swamp Thing is getting you down this much, you need to get out.” She said, “You picked a profession where it’s mostly rejection. You’re going to go through your whole life feeling badly about yourself if this is how you’re treating your Swamp Thing rejection.”

Cheryl: I thought about it and it made a lot of sense to me. And it really made me step back and think about the idea of rejection and auditioning and not getting the part. I really thought about it in a completely different way, whereas it doesn’t matter if you get the part or not. The success is that you got the audition and you got to go in and you got to do your best, and that should be your definition of success. Otherwise, if you’re waiting to be happy until you get cast in that thing, you might not ever be happy because like you’re saying, there’s a big component of luck that has to be there for you to get something.

Cheryl: So I’ve taken time to think about my self worth, if you will. That has nothing to do with, if I get a job as an actress or not. But then that being said, the fourth time I went in to audition for Swamp Thing, I got it.

Jay: Congratulations.

Cheryl:Thank you.

Jay: And so talk a little bit about the industry that you’re in, being a woman and the barriers that sometimes women have to face in the industry and especially, as people progress in their career, the ways that the industry may view them. And what are your opinions on that? And how do you handle that? How do you take a leadership role in that?

Cheryl: Well, I have a few schools of thought. It’s interesting because for me personally, I haven’t felt that barrier between women and not being able to move to the next level. And maybe because I started at the Groundlings and it’s very, I don’t know, guy/girl doesn’t matter as long as you’re funny or talented, it doesn’t really matter. But then when I started doing other things like producing, directing, then it did become more clearer to me, “Oh, it’s unusual for a woman to direct a film.” But I had never thought about it before until people started asking me like, “Wow, you are lady director. How does that feel?” “Oh, yeah, I guess I’m a lady and a director, probably feels like a guy director. But I don’t know.”

Cheryl: It’s interesting especially when I work with my husband and we’re trying to figure out a film or a TV show to watch, that’s when it becomes very clear to me. “Oh, it is very male dominated.” Because I don’t connect that strongly to a film that is all men and then maybe one lady that’s the nurse. I don’t really need to watch another where it’s just a bunch of guys killing each other. I don’t respond to that. And just the same as he probably doesn’t want to watch a movie that’s 99% women and one guy who comes in and brings chocolate and flowers to the girls.

Cheryl: But that being said, it’s mostly guys in movies. And when I was putting together this project of a film that I wrote and we were getting money, trying to raise the money for it. And there was one organization who said, “Yes, we will contribute to this as long as you can guarantee that at least 50% of the cast will be at least women and or minorities.” And I thought, “That is a weird… Of course it’s going to be 50% of the cast.” Then I realized, “Oh, that’s just me. And that’s not normal.” I mean, you watch things and it’s not usually a 50/50 mix. So, it’s a learning process.

Jay: I think that the entertainment industry has had a lot of stigma and you’ve seen other minority groups that have been discriminated against for decades and are now sort of making progress. The African American community, Hispanic community, Asian community have really come to the forefront. I mean, they’re not, I would say completely in positions of power, but their power is growing. I think also with women in film and you’ve not only acted, but you’ve directed. And I’m wondering if you could talk about how does it feel being an actress as opposed to directing something? And which one do you enjoy more?

Cheryl: Well, yes, they are completely different art forms. Although I hate to use that word because Larry David would be like, “Oh God, art forms.” But acting, there’s an ease to it. And maybe because I’ve been doing it for so long, I don’t know, I find it very, it’s just my job. But as a director, I just directed an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm this season, so that was fun. And I’ve directed a few television projects and also an independent feature film a while ago. And directing is definitely more challenging for me. I mean, you’re the first one on the set and you’re the last one to leave and you have to know exactly what’s going on and you have to anticipate what’s going to happen in the next hour and the next two hours, tomorrow morning, what happens if it rains? What happens if one of the actors is late? What happens if, there a lot of what ifs that you have to think about as director and it’s very stressful. Does that answer the question?

Jay: Sure. So it sounds like you enjoy both being an actor and directing, but they’re very different art forms.

Cheryl: Yes.

Jay: And you’ve talked a lot about this in different forms, but you are a trained actress. You’re used to learning lines and knowing what you have to say and when you have to say it. How was it to adapt to playing on Curb Your Enthusiasm where there are no lines and everything is improvised?

Cheryl: Well, that was very easy for me only because I had just spent so many years at the Groundlings Theater doing improv in front of a live audience, which is terrifying. But it’s about listening to your scene partner and responding. So that’s what we do on Curb. You’re just listening and you can’t respond until you hear what the other person says. And then if you have a genuine response to it, then you’re doing the right thing.

Cheryl: So it’s actually easier for me on Curb Your Enthusiasm, because I’ve never felt a responsibility to try to be funny. I’m pretty much the straight man on Curb, which is great. Whereas like I said, when you’re doing improv in front of a live audience and they say, “Oh, where are these two people?” “They’re at Starbucks.” “Okay, go.” And then now you’re doing a scene from scratch and you have to label who you are, who your scene partner is, what’s going on, what the problem is, how are you going to solve it? And you have to do it all in two and a half minutes. So for me it was an easy transition.

Jay: So I only met Larry once. And it was when we did this honoring of the Farrelly brothers. And he seemed like a very genuine person, a little bit prickly, but he’s probably exactly as he is in real life as he is on the show. That’s my guess. But you probably have years of experience of knowing this.

Cheryl: Larry is, as you can imagine, a very smart person. And he’s so great because he knows what’s funny about himself. He knows that because he hates social rules, he knows that that’s funny to other people, although in real life he hates social rules. So it’s pretty great that he can harness it basically and do it on the show. In real life, he wouldn’t actually cross some of the lines he crosses on Curb, but he also says, that’s why he does it, that’s why he does the show. So he can because that’s how he would like to act.

Jay: I remember when I went to shake his hand, he’s like, “I haven’t shaken a hand in six weeks and I’m not going to start right now.” So that was my introduction to Larry David.

Cheryl: Yeah. But that’s what I like about him. He’ll be very honest with you. “Do you want to have lunch?” “No.” “Oh, okay. Well then I will talk to you later.” “Yeah. Or not.”

Jay: Let me ask you, if you hadn’t gone into acting, what do you think you’d be doing right now?

Cheryl: I think I would be a psychologist.

Jay: Interesting.

Cheryl: Yeah. I am very interested at people and how they approach things in life. And I think I might be helpful at listening.

Jay: And what advice would you give to young actors who are trying to make it into the business?

Cheryl: Well, like we talked about before, I think you have to find other ways to be happy in your life. I think you have to recognize your happiness when it comes. So you’re not sitting around thinking, “Oh, when I get that TV show I’ll be happy. When I get that movie I’ll be happy.” Find your little victories along the way and really celebrate them. I was just interviewing J.B. Smoove who’s on Curb Your Enthusiasm and he’s just great. He’s very smart. And he said, “Don’t let somebody else set the bar. You set the bar and then do pull ups on it.” I like that because as an actor, nobody’s going to knock on your door and say, “Hey, I heard you’re great.” They’re just not, it just doesn’t work like that.

Cheryl: But now we’re in a time of social media and everybody’s got a phone and everybody’s got a camera. So be creative, create projects that you like, that you think are good and you think are extraordinary and then put it out to the world and see if they respond. But you can’t sit around hoping that somebody’s going to discover you.

Narrator: You’re listening to All Inclusive with Jay Ruderman. You can learn more, view the show notes and transcripts at

Jay: Please remember to subscribe, rate and review us wherever you are listening.

Jay: So is this your new form of improv by doing sort of improv on social media? And do you still do improv?

Cheryl: Well, I just started a Zoom talk show called Shooting The Shit with Cheryl. That’s really fun. And yeah, I mean, I guess in a way it’s all improvised because I’m talking to people and hearing, “Oh, see, this is my life, it’s coming together.” I’m using my improv skills and my psychology skills because I like to listen to people. I like to hear their stories. I like to hear where they’re from and how they got there and what they’re doing. So yes, I’m using my improv skills there.

Cheryl: But I think everybody could use improv skills in life because one of the biggest rules about improv is to say yes, and. So when someone says something to you, you say yes, and then you add information. So you’re not saying no to people. You’re not saying, “I don’t like that idea. I didn’t just hear what you said. No, thank you.” You’re saying yes to everything and I think it’s a really good positive attitude to have, so yes, and. And eye contact is another, although it’s hard in our social isolation, but reading other people and really taking them in, I think is, I don’t know, it’s a great way to go through life, to listen, make eye contact and say yes.

Jay: And how do you deal with social media when it gets nasty? What’s your technique of dealing with that?

Cheryl: I usually ignore it. Sometimes you can’t ignore it. And then when you can’t, maybe you shut it off for a while. But once in a while I’ll respond. Somebody said something about my veneers being too big, my fake teeth. And I said, “Oh, I don’t have veneers, but thank you for taking the time to write that comment.” You can’t worry about it too much or you’ll go crazy.

Jay: Right. And I noticed that some actors are very active on social media and some of them choose not to be involved at all. So I guess it’s a personal choice in how you take it. Some people, I guess really take it to heart and it bothers them. They’re very sensitive. And some people are able to sort of just blow it off and turn it off.

Cheryl: Yeah. For me, I have been, maybe from being in this business, but it’s been years of, like I said, rejection, “Oh, she’s too old. She’s too young. She’s too bad. She’s too skinny.” She’s too this, she’s too that, whatever it is. So I think as long as you know who you are, other people can’t define you. So if somebody says, “Oh, your veneers are too big.” Well, like I said, I don’t have veneers. And even if I did and I chose them to be this big, then I don’t care what Joe in Kansas is saying, it’s fine. They’re working out for me. Don’t worry about it.

Jay: Right. It sounds like you have a very strong inner confidence and that’s been with you for a long time and maybe your family is a very strong basis that you can sort of turn to. I know that you do have a very strong family and that there are probably many people in the industry that don’t have that and probably lack that stability.

Cheryl: You’re right. I do have a strong connection to my family. And if you don’t have a strong connection to your family, and not everybody does, it’s important to have core group of people that will always be honest with you. Even if it’s just one person, you have to have somebody who will say, “Hey, reel it in, dial it down.” Either you’re not that great or you’re so much better than this, you need one honest person in your corner.

Jay: So America is a very diverse place. And I think that we’ve seen groups that have been ostracized from the entertainment industry. And as we talked about before, have made great strides, although they’re not quite there. The disability community has been really ostracized. In fact, I think that there’s this feeling in the entertainment industry, that great acting is playing disability. And in fact, in the last three decades, half the men that have won the best actor Oscar have won for playing a disability. And our foundation came up with a study that said that 95% of the characters that you see on TV playing a disability, don’t have that disability.

Jay: So that was part of why we’ve honored the Farrelly brothers because they’ve done, in their movies, a great job at giving roles for people with disabilities. And thank you for coming to that event. And thank you for signing our foundation’s letter urging studios to audition actors with disabilities. I know you have a personal connection with disability. It seems like entertainment should reflect, even though it’s entertainment, but the more that it reflects reality, I think the more impact it has on society in reducing stigma. You obviously chose to come to the event and you chose to sign the letter, what are your feelings about disability in terms of being behind and in front of the camera?

Cheryl: Well, you’re right. So I have a nephew who has cerebral palsy and he’s been in a wheelchair his whole life and his speech is not great, but I can understand every word. So I think there’s an interesting thing that goes on with people, especially that involves speech, some sort of disability that might impact your speech, the people around them can hear every word and understand it perfectly. And then somebody new comes in and it sounds like, “Oh, I can’t possibly hear what this person’s saying.”

Cheryl: But I think it’s very important for the industry to hire people with disabilities because it’s an authentic way to really see who other people are. So someone with a disability like cerebral palsy, if you hire somebody who has cerebral palsy like RJ Mitte in Breaking Bad. Here you have a great actor who’s playing somebody who has cerebral palsy who has cerebral palsy. So it’s a very authentic look at it and it’s not somebody’s interpretation of it, it’s just an actor playing a role.

Cheryl: Like with Shoshannah Stern in This Close, I was on that show and Shoshannah has a hearing disability and everybody on, not everybody, but most of the people, when I was there anyway, around me had different levels of, I don’t want to even say capability of hearing, oh, well, I will, I’ll say that because almost everybody on the set was signing using sign language. So it was interesting because I was the minority. So I was the one that didn’t know sign language, and they could all communicate beautifully and perfectly and telling jokes and I was the one left out because I didn’t know the language. But it was a great show because it’s about two people that can’t hear and you can see their point of view of the world and also how people perceive them.

Cheryl: So instead of people trying to imagine how that might look or feel or sound, you have people who can tell you exactly how it looks and feels and sounds. Same with Cole Sibus on Stumptown. So I did an episode of Stumptown and I just fell in love with Cole. Because here is an actor who has a disability, who’s doing an amazing job in his role, and he’s doing it better than somebody who would be acting like he had a disability. It’s just an authentic look at life and at people and who they are and how they perceive the world and how the world perceives them. It elevates a project to a very authentic place.

Jay: Right. And disability is such a large part of our society. 20% of our population has some form of a disability. And we’ve seen real leadership among people like Scott Silveri, who had a show on ABC called Speechless with Minnie Driver. And he went out and he looked for Micah Fowler who played one of the lead characters and someone who has a disability or Edgar Wright who produced, among his films, Baby Driver, and auditioned a lot of characters for the film, of Baby’s father, and then found CJ Jones who’s deaf and said the character was going to be deaf. Even John Krasinski, in A Quiet Place, wanted his daughter to be deaf and found Millicent Simmonds. So I think when you find that leadership, you have inclusion.

Jay: Your husband’s cousin, Tim Shriver wrote a book called Fully Alive, I don’t know if you’ve read it, but sort of goes through the history of disability in our country, how people were institutionalized and segregated. And it was actually Tim’s mother, Eunice Shriver who really began Special Olympics and really started bringing people with disabilities out of institutions and into the public view.

Jay: And our foundation recently did a study that we released to the studios. It was a survey saying the people really want authenticity and they’re willing to pay for authenticity. But this stigma that permeates our society about disability, I think also exists in the entertainment industry. And there’s some people that are saying, “Well, if you really want to have a character with disability played correctly, don’t hire a person with disability, hire an abled bodied actor to play that disability.”

Jay: So I think we’re in a transition period, but the more leaders like you and others that really say, “No, I think that people with disabilities have the right to be seen and to be heard.” The more that happens, the more stigma in our society will be reduced.

Cheryl: You’re absolutely right. And I think even ABC, Dancing with the Stars, I think they’ve done a very good job introducing the masses to someone who only has one leg, who’s an amazing dancer, somebody who can’t hear, who’s an amazing dancer. And it’s been fun to watch how much people around the world, around the country connect with that person. Most people haven’t had the opportunity to watch somebody who only has one leg, dance or who’s deaf, dance.

Cheryl: So I think it’s a good indicator to the industry that people connect with this and people want to understand it, want to see it, want to explore it. Clearly if so many actors have been winning awards for their portrayal of someone with a disability, there’s an audience out there who wants to see the story of this person with a disability. So what better way to do it than somebody with that disability. I think you’re right, I think we’re ready for it. We want to see it.

Jay: Yeah. Thank you. So let me just ask you some offhand questions. Are there any actors who you’ve not worked with yet that you were really dying to work with?

Cheryl: I mean, I should have an answer for this shouldn’t I? I don’t know, I’ve been so lucky with the people that I’ve worked with. It would be fun to do something with Glenn Close, like a thriller. A thriller with Glenn Close. Write it up you guys.

Jay: Yeah. I saw her in a film at Sundance with Mila Kunis. That was quite a film and I think will do fairly well. Let me ask you, your poker playing, where does that come from? And how long have you been a poker player? And is this online poker? Will you go to a casino when casinos actually become a thing again?

Cheryl: Well, I started playing when I was pregnant 16 years ago, because I was so bored and I was stuck at home and I started playing online and then I started playing with friends. We have trips to Vegas and stuff like that, but I have a home game. We haven’t played since the lockdown, but I have a home game with Ray Romano and Jason Alexander and Camryn Manheim, a bunch of people. And every month we go and we play till one in the morning if you’re one of the winners. During the lockdown, I’ve been playing online with my friends. Somehow somebody set it up where we’re on Zoom and we’re also playing on another device. So it’s complicated, but worth it.

Jay: Do you have a good poker face?

Cheryl: I have a great poker face. You know what I like about poker, it’s the one time that you not only should you lie, but you have to, you have to look somebody in the eye and lie to them and it’s perfectly acceptable. And I like that.

Jay: Interesting. Have you ever thought of joining one of these poker tournaments in Vegas that you see on TV?

Cheryl: Well, I have. I played the Women’s World Series of Poker. I have done a few TV poker games. One time I won. I seem to do a lot of charity poker tournaments, which is fun. I just did one for Feeding America that Ben Affleck coordinated. That was really good.

Jay: Are there any upcoming projects that we should be looking out for, that you’ve been involved with that you really liked and you’re excited about coming out? If you can divulge them at this time, if they’re not…

Cheryl: That’s what’s interesting. I don’t know if they’ve announced it yet, so I don’t think I can announce, but we shot one episode of this crazy fun show.

Jay: That’s as much as you can say right now.

Cheryl: So since they haven’t announced, I probably shouldn’t, but we did one episode the day before everything locked down. So hopefully we’re going to go back and finish shooting and then they’ll tell you all about it then.

Jay: All right. Well learn about it. Let me just ask you final question. Are there any shows or movies that you really like that have really caught your attention? Other than shows that you’re in.

Cheryl: It’d be so weird if only listed shows. Well, I really love Killing Eve, really enjoying Killing Eve. We just watched Waco, terribly sad, but interesting look on history. You know the meme, “I’ve just finished Netflix.” I kind of feel like that. I feel like I just watched everything, so now what?

Jay: Do you like watching yourself on TV and the movies? Or is it something that if you see something comes up, do you turn the channel or do you watch it?

Cheryl: Oh, no, I definitely don’t watch it. I don’t necessarily like watching myself, but like I said, I’ve been so fortunate to work with amazing people that I want to watch Curb, because I want to see what Larry and J.B. and Susie and Jeff are doing because I don’t get to see it unless it’s in the scene that I’m in. So I will watch it. I have to be in the mood. My husband will want to watch it all the time and I’m like, “I can’t tonight.”

Cheryl: The same with Bad Moms Christmas. I got to work with Susan Sarandon and Kristen bell. I had so much fun with them that I wouldn’t watch it by myself. But if my stepdaughter hasn’t seen it, she needs to see it, I would sit down and watch it with her with half an eye. It is weird see yourself.

Jay: I’m sure. Cheryl, I really appreciate your time and thank you for joining us and thanks for your leadership and being an awesome actor who I enjoy watching. Thank you so much and stay safe and stay healthy. And I hope your family stays safe and healthy throughout this whole pandemic. And we’ll see you on the other side.

Cheryl: Yes. Well thank you for all the work you’re doing. It’s really important, it makes such a difference in so many people’s lives. And it’s not easy work that you’re doing. I know this to be true, so I appreciate your hard work and keep it up and hope pays off and yes, you stay safe and sane.

Jay: Thank you so much.

Cheryl: Bye.

Narrator: All Inclusive is a production of the Ruderman Family Foundation. Our key mission is the full inclusion of people with disabilities in all aspects of society, you can find All Inclusive on Apple podcast, Google Play, Spotify and Stitcher. To view the show notes, transcripts or to learn more, go to Have an idea for a podcast? Be sure to tweet at Jay Ruderman.